tired... and tired of debating
I have been engaged in a "debate"/discussion on the Doctrines of Grace via Facebook mail now for the past 4 or 5 days or so with a gentleman whom I have never met... but we have some mutual friends. And I can say... that after 4 or 5 days of this... I am drained. Just wiped out. SO tired from arguing these points... and we've only thoroughly looked at ONE scripture... 2 Peter 3:9 (which I did a vlog on the subject... available here)... though he's alluded to other passages (without citing their contexts) when it fits his purposes. So many of his questions are just "why would God do ______?" He seems unwilling to be able to accept any correction when the correction comes from the text of the Word of God... if it goes against his tradition, that is.
I am SO tired of this. Whether these discussions are on MySpace... HisHolySpace (lol!)... Facebook... or whatever... SO SO often I go into a debate on these important issues of God's sovereignty and man's wickedness, and I feel I get no where. Very few (not saying none... but very few) I have ever discussed these issues of Calvinism with have ever displayed they are truly coming to the table to learn the Reformed possition... and willing to consider it. One person in particular HAS had a kind of openess to the ideas and are comparing them with what Scripture says... that's all I can really expect I suppose. That's all we can do when we come across a doctrine-- go to the Scriptures and see what the Bible says about it. What did God reveal in his Word?
Again... I am very tired. It is 2:12am. But also, I am fed up with arguing things with people who only have the desire to argue or to win the arguement from a worldly perspective. When someone comes to the table with something FAR less than anything resembling a teachable spirit... I feel I am just wasting breath. Now... can God still use such a presentation? despite it seeming to not produce much/any fruit now? Of course! Our God IS a sovereign one. He does as he pleases. He can be planting a seed. However, I do not know if this is the BEST way to get the message out... just by constant debating with people who don't really have an interest in setting aside their tradition and reading what the Bible says for itself.
Can debates, again, be good, profitble? YES! But I think there has to be a willingness to examine the texts... and if the texts contradict my tradition, the tradition HAS to be the one to move.
I can't say I'll never debate the issues of justification or Calvinism again... because I know I will! I am just so very very drained... I think I need to be a bit more discerning when it comes to whom I cast my pearls to.
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I am SO tired of this. Whether these discussions are on MySpace... HisHolySpace (lol!)... Facebook... or whatever... SO SO often I go into a debate on these important issues of God's sovereignty and man's wickedness, and I feel I get no where. Very few (not saying none... but very few) I have ever discussed these issues of Calvinism with have ever displayed they are truly coming to the table to learn the Reformed possition... and willing to consider it. One person in particular HAS had a kind of openess to the ideas and are comparing them with what Scripture says... that's all I can really expect I suppose. That's all we can do when we come across a doctrine-- go to the Scriptures and see what the Bible says about it. What did God reveal in his Word?
Again... I am very tired. It is 2:12am. But also, I am fed up with arguing things with people who only have the desire to argue or to win the arguement from a worldly perspective. When someone comes to the table with something FAR less than anything resembling a teachable spirit... I feel I am just wasting breath. Now... can God still use such a presentation? despite it seeming to not produce much/any fruit now? Of course! Our God IS a sovereign one. He does as he pleases. He can be planting a seed. However, I do not know if this is the BEST way to get the message out... just by constant debating with people who don't really have an interest in setting aside their tradition and reading what the Bible says for itself.
Can debates, again, be good, profitble? YES! But I think there has to be a willingness to examine the texts... and if the texts contradict my tradition, the tradition HAS to be the one to move.
I can't say I'll never debate the issues of justification or Calvinism again... because I know I will! I am just so very very drained... I think I need to be a bit more discerning when it comes to whom I cast my pearls to.
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I feel for you Ryan. I hope you get rested up and ready to continue the battle soon! I'm praying for you.
ReplyDeleteyou shouldn't be battling with other Christians.
ReplyDeleteno one will know for certain the theological absolutes until we reach heaven. no one can claim to know the right way in discerning God's word (when it comes to Calvinism vs. Armenism, infant vs. adult baptism, etc. -- in the end, this does not get you salvation).
until then, you ought to be content with knowing that whomever believes in the same Lord and Saviour as you, and believes He has died rose again to take upon himself the sins of the world, and will return to establish his Kingdom.
hey anony...
ReplyDeletetheology matters. what is the Bible full of? Just the words "smile Jesus loves you?" No way. THEOLOGY.
if the Bible is impossible to discern truth in terms of baptism or God's sovereignty in election... why does the Bible speak of such things?
And Jesus did not take on him the sins of the entire world. That is universalism. or it limits his ability to actually accomplish something in his death.
you spend too much time wrapped up in your precious theology. theology does not equal salvation. even the devil himself has theology. what matters is the life saving blood of Christ Himself. if you decide the you have the right to discern people's hearts and to judge their place in heaven because they differ "theologically" from you, then perhaps you ought to consider what the Bible says theologically on that point.
ReplyDeletewhether God "elected" or we chose does not matter. what matters is BELIEF and FAITH. this does not mean that we shouldn't think, talk, work through theology, but it does mean that we, as humans -- who are sinners, will possibly not get it right.
i am not judging anyone's eternal destiny, Annony. I am not God. I do have his Word he breathed out (Bible) and I do proclaim its truth. Are there parts of the Bible that are not important? Really? Truth not important? Surely not.
ReplyDeleteLet us look at someone who believes Jesus is NOT divine. Does that theology matter? Why? Am I, by calling that denial of Christ's deity heresy, making myself the discernment standard? NO. I am pointing to Scripture and asking what does the Bible say about this? Theology matters.
I never claimed theology gets you into Heaven. But in order to fling yourself at the mercy of Christ, you need to know who Christ is, no? If I pointed to my TV and said "THAT TV IS JESUS!" and I flung myself at the mercy of that... am I flinging myself upon the mercy of God? No way. I may think it is Jesus, but it really isn't.
Does the atoning sacrifice of Christ save? yes. Does faith and belief matter? Yes. But in WHOM or WHAT do you have faith? In WHOM do we believe in? Why? That WHO and WHAT and WHY? That's theology.
I do not claim that the every-day Arminian is a heretic. :-) I don't. In error? yes. Possibly serious error? Absolutely. It comes down to this: WHO gets the glory? Do I get the glory for MY work of accepting Jesus' sacrifice? making ME the determiner if I am saved or not, me the sovereign over my salvation? Or does GOD get the glory and thanks and praise, for doing EVERYTHING that needed to be done for me to be saved?
Glory to God ALONE.