Moral Issues, Politics, and the Gospel
I know you don't know me (or maybe you've seen me if you've come to see a play at East in the past 4 years), but I saw what you wrote on Jackie's wall...I mean, it seems like your trying to guilt her into voting for a certain person.
Not everything is black and white...you can be Christian AND be a Democrat. If everything was straightforward in the bible, and you use the bible to argue against certain things, then even the Republican candidates promote sin. I have my bible here and here are some things written in it (the same bible that condemns homosexuality):
"If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death..." Leviticus 20:9
"For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death." Exodus 35:2
(^ Many people work on Sunday...even pres. candidates! Do we kill them? No.)
Now, there are several SEVERAL more quotes from the bible that out date our times (source: My bible and http://home.earthlink.net/
Now, let me make it clear I'm not anti-Christian/religion (I was baptized and all that jazz) AND I don't believe people should get abortions just because "people can't keep it in their pants." There are extenuating circumstances for that...Like what if a woman was raped, etc.
Also, regarding homosexuality, you can't condemn someone because of something written by someone else (not even Jesus!) thousands of years ago that DOESN'T APPLY TO SOCIETY TODAY. I know gay people, and they do not choose that lifestyle. Why would they put themselves through that ridicule and uncomfortablenesses. And even if they did...that's there choice. Who cares?! I think God is looking down upon all the die-hard Bible followers and thinking, "Woah they took that sentence too seriously."
Do you remember how much Galileo got in trouble by the Church for his ideas of the earth revolving around the sun!? These ideas were banned and criticized by the church because Western Christian biblical references Psalm 93:1, Psalm 96:10, and 1 Chronicles 16:30 include text stating that "the world is firmly established, it cannot be moved." In the same tradition, Psalm 104:5 says, "[the LORD] set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." Further, Ecclesiastes 1:5 states that "And the sun rises and sets and returns to its place, etc." (wikipedia.com)
That, and the examples I quoted above show the Bible is outdated and you can't believe everything it says word for word that literally. It's NOT black and white.
Now am I saying that you shouldn't believe in God and Christianity is a hoax? No. I'm just saying you shouldn't be so closed minded and base all of your beliefs and opinions off of few phrases written in a book. Religion is good, but not when taken so literally. There are extensive essays and books on interpretations of the bible...It's not black and white.
I know I've repeated myself a lot, but that's just the basis of this long message: Don't judge and be so closed minded. How can you choose a political candidate based off of 1 issue (or 2?) Gay marriage?! Really, who is it hurting? Abortion is terrible, but there are circumstances that allow it. I don't believe in total pro-choice, but I'm not going to choose my candidate based off of just that one issue.
I hope you seriously consider what I've said before being all "Holier than thou" to someone next time. Who's to say YOUR religion is right?! Buddhism? Islam? Judaism?
I was fairly shocked by how long the note was upon receiving it. I wanted to reply, but I knew the reply would take a while... and indeed it did. The following is my reply... which actually took up 3 messages, for it was too long for Fb to send as one long message... I hope I was not too harsh and shall pray for Kevin. Please pray for him too, that God will soften his heart to the gospel.
LOL. do you actually wanna discuss these things and get my response, or do you wanna just do a drive-by argument? the reason the Bible condemns homosexuality, drunkenness, and lying is because they are part of God's MORAL law.
as for the OTHER issues you mentioned, it is common practice for critics of the Holy Scriptures to point those out and call Christians hypocrites for looking toward these scriptures for "some" of the law and "ignoring" others in the Bible. So why do we do this? We don't. We believe the MORAL LAW must be upheld.
You see, there are three types of law in the OT. We have Ceremonial law-- that which is for priests and the Jews for specific ceremonial celebrations. The second kind is known as Laws of Separation-- those which were used to identify the Jews as special people set apart from other nations of the world. One example of this is circumcision. This was not a moral issue... it was not a sin to have foreskin morally! lol. it was a mark of God's chosen people, separating his people from the pagan nations of the world. the same are said for those verses about work on the Sabbath (which, btw, is SATURDAY, NOT SUNDAY!... lol) and "harsh" laws about whom should be stoned, or not handling pigskins (as many liberals use that as a jab against playing football... paleeze).
I don't care if you were baptized... that means nothing to me. If you never repented and believed the gospel, putting your trust int he Savior Jesus Christ and his atoning work on the cross, you are not born again and are not saved from the wrath that is to come. Being splashed with water as a newborn or at the age of 9... or whenever... it doesn't do anything to save. Man is saved by grace through faith alone (Eph 2:8-9), not by... umm... water. AND you say there are cases of rape in which a baby should be killed? Yeah... because that is just. Sucks to be raped... but it sucks more for the baby that is being slaughtered by the mother and the abortionist. The mother gets to live... the baby doesn't even get that. Sucks for the baby. I would also like to point out that the only people... THE ONLY people who are in favor of abortion are ones who were never aborted... just a thought.
You say I can't condemn anyone. Rightly so. I don't condemn ANYONE. I can't decide for God who is going to Heaven and who goes to Hell. However I CAN plainly read God's word and say, with authority, that those who repent and believe WILL be in Heaven, and those who do not repent WILL be in Hell. I can also say that those who love God will produce fruit of a believer and WILL obey God's commands and will be seen as holy. Those who hate God, that is, those who do not repent will not be in Heaven. That is not condemnation. That is reading the text dude.
FURTHERMORE, you claim that there is a point at which absolute truth is no longer absolute?? ok... ha. God's word IS absolute. God says it. Period. IT doesn't matter if it is 5000 yrs since the giving of the Law or even more. Homosexuality is still sin. Lying is still sin. Rape is still sin. Is there a point at which the labeling of RAPE as a sin no longer apply to us? Is there a time in which THAT SIN no longer is called a sin? That is the thing about Absolute Truth... it doesn't change, no mater what time period or what society.
"I know gay people, and they do not choose that lifestyle." Really? Would you say that they can't choose then to abandon their sinful lifestyle? Scripture says otherwise (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)... and I trust God's word more than any man's "personal account" any day. What does it matter to me? It matters to God. God hates sin. HATES. His wrath will be poured upon unrepentant sinners some day, and I urge people (including you, man) to turn form your sin and put your trust in the savior alone. You claim God is looking down upon me and thinking I am taking scripture too literally? really? because it is too obvious to take God's word at face value and to interpret it literally given the context? When God says DON'T DO X, it would be foolish to think that he would want us to DO X, or that X isn't important at all. Again, I trust God's revealed Word more than your guess about what God is doing, as that has NO scriptural backing to it whatsoever. Sorry man. I go w/ the 66 books over your guess any day. :-)
The verse you pointed out 1 Chronicles does provide some difficulty at first glance. I have not been able to find a definite response but as someone who does study texts, I will give you what I believe the text to be saying. look at the entire sentence: "Worship the LORD in the splendor of holiness; tremble before him, all the earth; yes, the world is established; it shall never be moved." You should realize that you are assuming that "the world" is talking about the orb on which we live-- Planet Earth. often "earth" and "world" in the scriptures, determined by its context, may also mean "every person," or in this case I believe, "all creation." The whole world meaning his entire creation. The verses surrounding the text you brought up focus on God's majesty and his might. It isn't some scientific lesson on the rotation of the Earth that is being spoken of. But rather of how God's creation is HIS. the text also includes that the earth should TREMBLE BEFORE HIM, and the earth should rejoice. That doesn't mean that the earth will open up and scream or that it will quake. But rather that all creation in general exists for God's pleasure.
The verses in the Psalms and other wisdom literature often use figurative language within the text itself. This does NOT mean I, or anyone else, doesn't take the Bible literally. We take the figurative language as literal figurative language. Hope that explanation helped.
You tell me not to judge... to not be so closed minded. Have you considered these words of my reply to you? I do not claim to be very open-minded. I know truth. You accuse me of being closed-minded, and I am guessing, you see yourself as a fairly open-minded person. Otherwise, why would you care if I am closed-minded? So have you considered and opened your mind to the words I have taken time to write here in this reply? If not... if you have not considered in your mind and soul what I am saying to you, which is the truth from the Scriptures, YOU are VERY CLOSED-MINDED YOURSELF! :-) Also, you seem to be bothered by the fact I am closed-minded... and in doing so, you are being very closed-minded to my closed-mindedness. :-)
You tell me to judge others... I am guessing you are referring to Jackie and other "liberal Christians." Well, as Jackie claims to be a Christian, I am to hold her accountable in her deeds and what she proclaims. 1 Corinthians 5 and Galatians 1. I am not condemning her to Hell for her actions. However God's church is to not judge the WORLD-- we can't say that someone is going to never repent, because we cannot know the future. It IS the job of the Church, however, to judge those inside the church and those who claim to be Christian... again, 1 Corinthians 5:13. I and other Christians are to hold Jackie and any other Christian accountable. Christians are not alone and they cannot just do as they please when they go against God's Word. I mean no ill will toward Jackie-- as she proclaims to be a Christian, I am her brother in Christ and desire to aid her in fighting the good fight and finishing the faith (2 Timothy 4:7).
When I came to this university, I was only a two issue voter-- the moral issues. Abortion and Gay Marriage. Abortion because the slaughter of unborn babies sickens me to no end. We, as Christians, are called to look out for the defenseless. A Christian is NOT doing so when he or she endorses candidates who are in favor of abortion (... especially seeing as Obama and Clinton both support the availability of Partial-Birth abortion and want that ban overturn... gross!). Who does gay marriage hurt? Well, it cheapens an institution put in place by God (Matthew 19:4-5... which while about divorce, is also a description of what marriage IS TO BE: a union between one man and one woman). To do so is to spit in God's face and claim that mere man knows what is just and righteous more than God does. Blasphemy. God IS Righteousness and he IS JUSTICE. He doesn't conform to man's shallow views on the matters. He is the definition of such things. ...however, now that I am knowledgeable about economics and taxes, and my desire for citizens to actually FOLLOW THE LAWS (illegal aliens)... I am a full-blooded Very Conservative young man. :-) SO no, I am not only a 2-issue voter. but if I were, what charge may be brought against me for that? Anyway, I could conceivably vote for a Democrat, provided he was pro-life and against Gay-marriage. I do not hold to any party. I vote for the candidate that I can align myself with on moral issues-- abortion and gay marriage.
I cannot view my religion in light of man's politics. I view political choices I make in light of what God's Word says-- as it "is breathed out of the mouth of God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16).
I am not one who claims to be "holier-than-thou," though I do claim to read and follow God's Holy Word-- The Bible. I do strive to obey God's commands and I strive to be holy because God is holy. How DARE you JUDGE ME for being "holier-than-thou" and for being "closed-minded"!!
And who is to say MY religion is right? Well it is not because I say it. I am not the master and creator-- God is. Who is to say that Christianity is right? Hmmm... I'll take the words of God -- Jesus Christ in John 14:6:
"I AM the way, the truth and the life. NO ONE comes to the Father except through me."
That is why Christianity is right and other religions are wrong. Other religions are idolitars, worshiping a "divine being" or even no being that doesn't exist. Jesus Christ IS the only way. All other ways lead to destruction.
Lastly, I want to ask you something very important... You know, most people would claim to be a good person. That because of their goodness, they will escape any kind of judgment or punishment by God and will get to Heaven... or some idea of a good place when they die. So... do YOU consider yourself to be a good person? Do YOU think you are good enough to get to Heaven? Let's walk through God's standard of what it means to be a "good person":
Have you ever told a lie? Undoubtedly you have... I have... everyone has. So what do you call someone who tells lies? If I told you a lie, what would you call me? You'd call me a liar. Ok, next one:
Have you ever stolen anything? ANYTHING? Ever taken someone that doesn't belong to you, irregardless of value? a paper clip? a ball-point pen? downloaded music illegally? You know you have at LEAST ONCE in your life. What do we call a person who steels? no, not a steeler... we call them a thief.
Have you ever used God's name in vain? such as when you smash your finger in a door or another scenario and shout "G**-Da*mit!" Well when you do that , you break the 3rd commandment and it is called blasphemy and is very serious in God's sight... you are taking God's Holy name... the name of the God that gave you life and using it as a cuss word to express disgust.
Lastly for this exercise... is adultery. Most think that adultery is only limited to having sex outside of marriage with someone (you aren't married to, obviously)... but look at what Jesus said in Matthew 5:27-28: "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that everyone who looks at another person with lust has already committed adultery in his heart." SO have you ever looked at another person with lust? Ever looked at another person with sexual desire in your life?
So let's look at the score, man... by your own admission (if you were honest with each question and answered yes to them), you are a lying, thieving, blasphemous, adulterer at heart... and we only took a look at 4 of the 10 commandments! So, if God judged you by those commandments today, do you think you'd be innocent or guilty? Obviously guilty-- you broke his laws. So do you think you'd go to Heaven or Hell? I think if you are honest and realize that Hell is the payment lawbreakers must pay for their sin, you would realize that you deserve an eternity in Hell.
But you may say "well all you need to do is ask for forgiveness and be sorry for what you do!" Well, try using that in the court of law. If you go before the judge, guilty of rape and murder to a 13 yr old girl, and tell the judge, "I am sorry for what I did... can you let me go?"... do you think a just judge would allow you to leave and not have to pay the consequences? NO! He'd be corrupt for letting a guilty man go free without paying the penalty! Such a thing would be horrible! And God is not unjust. Or you may say "well i've done good things too in my life!" It doesn't matter... a judge doesn't care if the Rapist has donated money to charity or served at a soup kitchen, because he is STILL GUILTY of breaking the LAW.
So... you still think you'd be good enough for Heaven?... or do you recognize that despite the fact you may try to do good things? Does it concern you that you would spend an eternity in Hell? I know it should, man. An eternity with God's wrath being poured out upon you... it is unbearable to think about.
So why am I telling you this? Because I too deserve this wrath in Hell. But I am also telling you that there is a way to escape the wrath that is to come!! 2,000 yrs ago, Jesus Christ came down to heart-- God himself came down and paid the penalty for sin by dying on the cross as a sinless man, and paying the ultimate price for sin! Christ died to pay the sin of all those who would repent and believe the gospel, so that they will have eternal life and be spared of the coming wrath!! Imagine Jesus paying that fine... he didn't have to and we cannot earn such a gift! But it is a free gift from God to all who repent and believe! Ephesians 2:8-9. we cannot earn salvation-- it is a gift from God that is offered FREELY!! You can escape this coming judgment and have your sins paid for by Christ as well, my friend!!
No, you don't pray a specific "sinner's prayer" and no you don't get baptized... those things do not save you. And going to church doesn't save you any more than going to McDonalds makes you a French Fry. So how then can you be saved? By the gift from God and being born again. Repent and believe the gospel, putting your trust in the Savior Jesus Christ. When you jump out of a plane, you don't just believe the parachute exists, you put your trust in the parachute to save you from certain death without it. You need to do the same thing with Jesus Christ-- Repent, which means turn away from your sinful nature and sinful life, and put your trust IN Jesus Christ and his wondrous work on the cross.
Kevin, we've been over a lot in this message... believe me, it took a couple hours to write it! lol. But I hope you realize that my motives here are pure and true. I'm not asking for money or to get you to join a church... but I love you man, and I don't want you to end up spending an eternity in Hell. It would have been easier to just write off your message you sent and ignore you... but because I care about you and your eternal destiny, I wanted to explain the gospel to you in a clear way... possibly in a way that has never been done before with a clarity never shown before. Again I don't want your money... I just want for you to get right with God.
If you own a Bible, please read the Gospel of John... it isn't very long, just 21 chapters. If you don't own a bible, http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/ is a great recourse for you to use to read it. I truly hope you take time to consider these words I have typed to you... both my response to your points and this gospel presentation. There is NOTHING more important than where you will spend eternity.
Well I have taken up a LOT of your time. I hope and pray you get this far in the message ... and I will be praying for you, Kevin. Goodnight, man.
I truly hope I was not overly-harsh or anything of that nature. I actually was not going to type as much as I did... but the entire final 3rd of the message just came out of a need I felt to share the gospel with this young man. He may never hear the biblical gospel... he might have only been exposed to the man-centered gospel before. We are not called to make converts... we are called to plant seeds. I pray this seed has been planted firmly and that God will soften his heart and bring Kevin to repentance.
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Sometimes the truth is "harsh" ...nothing can do done about that. I think you managed to soften it as best you could. Seems like you started out taking his reply to you personally, but then quickly moved to a view from Christ's eyes, realizing there's no reason to take it personally! Way to go! If only more people had that self-discipline! Proud to call you a Brother in Christ. Keep on keeping the faith! -Kenny in PA.
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