Issues with... Driscoll
This is going to be EXTREMELY disjointed... it is 5am and I am wiped out. However something needs to be addressed, I think... and that someone (someone) is Mark Driscoll, pastor at Mars Hill Church in Seattle.
Long known as "the cussing preacher," this 'emerging preacher' (more conservative than their Emergent counterparts... or rather, than their universalist counterparts) is none too shy about letting vulgar words of disgust exit his lips while at the pulpit. According to my older bro, Driscoll recognizes his own prideful sin in this and has taken steps to try and improve in the direction of holiness in this very unfortunate area of sin in his life. This is also echoed by my buddy (not personal buddy though, much to my dismay!) Todd Friel of The Way of the Master Radio, as he too recognizes that he's cleaned up his language to a large extent.
Great. As possibly one of the biggest haters of vulgar speech you will ever meet (I try not to be a jerk about it when it is said around me... that is one of my big 3 that irk me-- Vulgar language, drunkenness and smoking), I am thrilled that his speech has been toned back. I recognize that I may be deemed a legalistic possible hypocrite for this... I DO feel there IS a difference between uttering "crap" from the pulpit to uttering "S_ _ t." Another example... probably a FAR MORE dramatic example is dealing with a topic of sex... it is far more appropriate to use the phrase "engage in intercourse" than... well... the F word, even if used in the correct grammatical use of the word. Ultimately YOU (the reader) and I will need to answer for what is true. And I could be wrong... and you certainly have liberty possibly in this area... but I will remind you of 1 Corinthians 6:12.
Anyway... I am actually a mild fan of Driscoll. Definitely Paul Washer, John MacArthur and John Piper (and other Reformed preachers) hold higher places in my view than Mark does. Still, I have heard Mark speak on the sovereignty of God, divine election, and on sexual purity (somewhat) and I recognize that he has some good doctrinal points. (Although he is very... unschooled when it comes to dealing with the 'anti-calvinist' passages in scripture, and would do well to check out Dr James White on the topic.)
... Still... I saw something tonight also while watching some of the video podcasts of Mars Hill Church sermons that really twirked me (is that a word? Firefox doesn't recognize it on Spellcheck... oh oh).
During the Q&A time at the end of his final service on weekends, Driscoll and Friends allow attendees to text message questions in and he will respond to them in a somewhat lengthy (20 min seems to be the average) Q&A session. First... while describing that the texts would be screened, Mark stated this was due to the fact that someone may attempt to send a picture of a naked girl, because some people find this funny. Mark's next statement: "Which it is funny!" :-\ the crowd roars in laughter. :-\ hmmm... I don't know that pornography is something to be handled crassly... unless you are one of those gospel-diluters over @ XXXChurch.com ... but anyway...
And then just now, I viewed a question someone had sent in... one that I had wondered about as well. Mark commonly wears T-Shirts while preaching, under a cool track jacket. Now... often these shirts have something to do with Jesus... shirts that I would be rather squeamish about wearing. Apparently a congregation member had thought along the same lines as me. "The T-Shirts you wear, don't they mock Jesus rather than Glorifying him?" "NO! That's the whole point!" [crowd laughs] Mark unzips his jacket a bit so the shirt is viewable and reads what it says: "GOD, SAVE ME FROM YOUR FOLLOWERS." Mark then declares "That's funny stuff right there!" Again, the audience laughs and applauds. Mark gives a weird glare to the crowd, almost as if to say (via body language, imo) "What a stupid question... you need to lighten up, whoever asked that."
:- l Call me boring and irrelevant. I am less than amused by such a shirt. "God, save me from your followers?!" So... someone who professes to be a Christian is asking God to save him from Christ's bride? That just seems a LITTLE insulting to the Bride of Christ. Okay, so maybe more than a little. I mean... this is God's chosen people... those whom God has loved and set apart before the foundation of the world... and you just attack her in such a way that makes her seem tyranical and something to be avoided? Do you really not think God is bothered when you mess with his Church? If someone talks bad about my mom, or a friend... someone I have a close relationship with, I get bothered and even angry. That person is close to me, and I get bothered when that person is attacked by another. How much more so with God?
It is not as though this were the only shirt I knew of that he wore that seemed to be less than great when it comes to God. Another one that I just took a gander at includes Jesus as... a DJ at a turntable. Okay. So Jesus is to be in charge of my life and he's the one calling the shots... "it is not I who lives, but Christ who lives in me." yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah... I GET that. But still. On a shirt? as a DJ? Interestingly, I have seen (and rather like) a poster which includes an outline/shadowy "iPod silhouette" Jesus playing an electric guitar... with the caption "Jesus Rocks." Now though THIS doesn't seem to bother me AS MUCH (again, I don't know why), a buddy icon available for AIM that includes the same caption and is a gif of Jesus playing the guitar while head-banging... this too I find somewhat offensive... even blasphemous....
This isn't Mic Jagger. This isn't DJ-Maj. This is the Lord Jesus Christ we are talking about here! The one who bore upon him the payment for sin so his Children would not suffer eternity in Hell. The one who spoke the Universe into existence. And Mark... and OTHERS who profess Christ wear shirts that jokingly shout JESUS IS MY HOMEBOY and pleads to be saved from Christ's bride? There just seems to be a disdain for God and Christ here... nearing the point, in my opinion, of blasphemy.
I cannot claim to know Mark Driscoll's heart... or anyone else who wears such clothing items. And some of what Driscoll says I really take to heart and ponder. I know a lot of my friends look up to him and revere him as a teacher and pastor. Certainly there are worse men who MANY Evangelical Christians lend ears to and absorb how to live an awesome existence in the here and now as opposed to... teaching how one can be free from sin and death. .... And much of Driscoll's theology DOES ROCK. And I do not claim that just because of this issue I have with the man... that this nullifies everything he has to say. It doesn't. If it is biblical truth, it is biblical truth. And Driscoll often does preach biblical truth. Conversely, I don't know that this voids him from this issue, either. The ends do not justify the means.
It is the practice of what occurs from the pulpit that conserns me. The language. the crass shirts. And instead of going into detail about the question, Driscoll really seemed to just blow the question off answering as quickly as possible. I too have struggled with and continue to struggle with the issue that was raised in reaction to his wardrobe.
I do not mean to be focusing on the insignificant. This is something that has been on my heart of late... it really has. Jesus isn't your homeboy. He's Lord. Shouldn't we treat him as such?
And as always, if you feel I am off-base... let me know! I do not have an axe to grind against Driscoll... I tend to like him and try to listen to him whenever I can! However I seem unable to escape this issue. I cannot judge him on where he goes. But as his brother in Christ, am I not qualified to be concerned about some fruit? 1 Cor 5:12
Just some thoughts...
<><
Great. As possibly one of the biggest haters of vulgar speech you will ever meet (I try not to be a jerk about it when it is said around me... that is one of my big 3 that irk me-- Vulgar language, drunkenness and smoking), I am thrilled that his speech has been toned back. I recognize that I may be deemed a legalistic possible hypocrite for this... I DO feel there IS a difference between uttering "crap" from the pulpit to uttering "S_ _ t." Another example... probably a FAR MORE dramatic example is dealing with a topic of sex... it is far more appropriate to use the phrase "engage in intercourse" than... well... the F word, even if used in the correct grammatical use of the word. Ultimately YOU (the reader) and I will need to answer for what is true. And I could be wrong... and you certainly have liberty possibly in this area... but I will remind you of 1 Corinthians 6:12.
Anyway... I am actually a mild fan of Driscoll. Definitely Paul Washer, John MacArthur and John Piper (and other Reformed preachers) hold higher places in my view than Mark does. Still, I have heard Mark speak on the sovereignty of God, divine election, and on sexual purity (somewhat) and I recognize that he has some good doctrinal points. (Although he is very... unschooled when it comes to dealing with the 'anti-calvinist' passages in scripture, and would do well to check out Dr James White on the topic.)
... Still... I saw something tonight also while watching some of the video podcasts of Mars Hill Church sermons that really twirked me (is that a word? Firefox doesn't recognize it on Spellcheck... oh oh).
During the Q&A time at the end of his final service on weekends, Driscoll and Friends allow attendees to text message questions in and he will respond to them in a somewhat lengthy (20 min seems to be the average) Q&A session. First... while describing that the texts would be screened, Mark stated this was due to the fact that someone may attempt to send a picture of a naked girl, because some people find this funny. Mark's next statement: "Which it is funny!" :-\ the crowd roars in laughter. :-\ hmmm... I don't know that pornography is something to be handled crassly... unless you are one of those gospel-diluters over @ XXXChurch.com ... but anyway...
And then just now, I viewed a question someone had sent in... one that I had wondered about as well. Mark commonly wears T-Shirts while preaching, under a cool track jacket. Now... often these shirts have something to do with Jesus... shirts that I would be rather squeamish about wearing. Apparently a congregation member had thought along the same lines as me. "The T-Shirts you wear, don't they mock Jesus rather than Glorifying him?" "NO! That's the whole point!" [crowd laughs] Mark unzips his jacket a bit so the shirt is viewable and reads what it says: "GOD, SAVE ME FROM YOUR FOLLOWERS." Mark then declares "That's funny stuff right there!" Again, the audience laughs and applauds. Mark gives a weird glare to the crowd, almost as if to say (via body language, imo) "What a stupid question... you need to lighten up, whoever asked that."
:- l Call me boring and irrelevant. I am less than amused by such a shirt. "God, save me from your followers?!" So... someone who professes to be a Christian is asking God to save him from Christ's bride? That just seems a LITTLE insulting to the Bride of Christ. Okay, so maybe more than a little. I mean... this is God's chosen people... those whom God has loved and set apart before the foundation of the world... and you just attack her in such a way that makes her seem tyranical and something to be avoided? Do you really not think God is bothered when you mess with his Church? If someone talks bad about my mom, or a friend... someone I have a close relationship with, I get bothered and even angry. That person is close to me, and I get bothered when that person is attacked by another. How much more so with God?
It is not as though this were the only shirt I knew of that he wore that seemed to be less than great when it comes to God. Another one that I just took a gander at includes Jesus as... a DJ at a turntable. Okay. So Jesus is to be in charge of my life and he's the one calling the shots... "it is not I who lives, but Christ who lives in me." yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah... I GET that. But still. On a shirt? as a DJ? Interestingly, I have seen (and rather like) a poster which includes an outline/shadowy "iPod silhouette" Jesus playing an electric guitar... with the caption "Jesus Rocks." Now though THIS doesn't seem to bother me AS MUCH (again, I don't know why), a buddy icon available for AIM that includes the same caption and is a gif of Jesus playing the guitar while head-banging... this too I find somewhat offensive... even blasphemous....
This isn't Mic Jagger. This isn't DJ-Maj. This is the Lord Jesus Christ we are talking about here! The one who bore upon him the payment for sin so his Children would not suffer eternity in Hell. The one who spoke the Universe into existence. And Mark... and OTHERS who profess Christ wear shirts that jokingly shout JESUS IS MY HOMEBOY and pleads to be saved from Christ's bride? There just seems to be a disdain for God and Christ here... nearing the point, in my opinion, of blasphemy.
I cannot claim to know Mark Driscoll's heart... or anyone else who wears such clothing items. And some of what Driscoll says I really take to heart and ponder. I know a lot of my friends look up to him and revere him as a teacher and pastor. Certainly there are worse men who MANY Evangelical Christians lend ears to and absorb how to live an awesome existence in the here and now as opposed to... teaching how one can be free from sin and death. .... And much of Driscoll's theology DOES ROCK. And I do not claim that just because of this issue I have with the man... that this nullifies everything he has to say. It doesn't. If it is biblical truth, it is biblical truth. And Driscoll often does preach biblical truth. Conversely, I don't know that this voids him from this issue, either. The ends do not justify the means.
It is the practice of what occurs from the pulpit that conserns me. The language. the crass shirts. And instead of going into detail about the question, Driscoll really seemed to just blow the question off answering as quickly as possible. I too have struggled with and continue to struggle with the issue that was raised in reaction to his wardrobe.
I do not mean to be focusing on the insignificant. This is something that has been on my heart of late... it really has. Jesus isn't your homeboy. He's Lord. Shouldn't we treat him as such?
And as always, if you feel I am off-base... let me know! I do not have an axe to grind against Driscoll... I tend to like him and try to listen to him whenever I can! However I seem unable to escape this issue. I cannot judge him on where he goes. But as his brother in Christ, am I not qualified to be concerned about some fruit? 1 Cor 5:12
Just some thoughts...
<><
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